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Oh, Well, Then Allow Me to Retort | Print |  E-mail
Written by Joeprah   
 
on Thursday May 1, 2008
Editor's rating No rating
Average user rating 10/10   (5 votes)
Views 846    
Favoured 45

Setting the Stage 

 Well Allow me to RetortRemember that scene in Pulp Fiction where Brad talks in circles and Jules gets uber upset and shoots him?  You know the Kahuna Burger scene?  If you haven't seen Pulp Fiction I will set this up in terms so that you can understand.  One party says something so ridiculous that it makes another second party hostile and super angry.  Gun play ensues and the first party is quite dead while the second party is left unscathed from the fray.  In this scenario I am Jules (Samuel L. Jackson) and Brad is Penelope Trunk .  Admittedly, I am not a Penelope Trunk connoisseur, but I do get the gist of her blog.  She gives tips/hacks to help deal with the corporate world.  Ms. Trunks lends her insight and experience to suggest solutions to deal with workplace problems like office romance, how to get a job you may not be qualified for, or teaching your kids important values so that they may be better equipped to succeed in today's fast paced and ever changing corporate world.  I have no issue with this at all and I find that she is well equipped and quite battle tested with her own personal experiences to handle such topics. However, yesterday she took on the topic of "stay at home dads " and immediately turned herself into Brad eating a Kahuna burger.  I will give you some time to acquaint yourself with the article.

Excellent, you're back!  So, what did you think?  Need help?  Let me start by saying this article is offensive to 99% of the SAHDs out there trying their hardest to do what's best for their families.  If you did not read the article here is the synopsis:

The Synopsis 

  • We call this tooting our own horn, but she does it in an obnoxious way 
  • She is obnoxious
  • She says SAHDs always want to be interviewed by her because she is really important and all
  • She thinks they are all lame except this one dude
  • She posts a collection of edited emails from this guy saying:

 I like this guy because he is more honest with me about his life than any other stay-at-home dad I know. 

  • The guy she highlights in the post talks about having an affair with a 50 year old woman
  • The guy’s emails never mention his kids except that they exist
  • He talks about life as an admitted absolute chauvinist
  • The title of the article is "What life's really like for a stay at home dad"
  • She gets it all wrong
  • She is annoying
  • She asks follow up questions at the end of her exposé that prove she is completely out of touch with the topic she speaks of 
  • She should stick to business questions
  • Many folks unsubscribed from her blog because of this ridiculous post 

 

My Turn 

Bottom line, her assertion is that everyone in the US cheats and that SAHDs are "keeping it real" if they admit to it because it fits into the box she lives in.  She applauds this mans honesty only because it must somehow validate her own philosophies that, perhaps to no fault of her own, have been created by past failed relationships or witnessing others struggle with infidelity.  

My reality, after reading many SAHD blogs, articles, and forums; after being a SAHD (part or full-time) for almost 8 years; after meeting and talking to other SAHDs in my journey as a dad/husband/human being is that the average Joe SAHD isn't some rock star, ego maniacal figure that looks for spa treatments and manicures, but rather a hard working guy that deals with spit up, crying babies and stinky diapers with the best of them.  If Ms. Trunks is so intune with corporate America then she should understand that the workplace is changing and many more dads are working from home or out of their home more than ever before.  The trend isn't chauvinistic jerks, like the one she highlights in this article, but rather dads becoming more active in their children's lives.  Seriously, labels always suck and what Penelope just did was pigeon hole a segment of society unfairly and without provocation simply because this one dude emailed her more consistently.  If that’s what it takes to get a guest spot on her blog I suggest that all crazy people everywhere start emailing her consistently and make her blog really fun.  

I try everyday, whether it be here on my blog or in public when I am out with my girlfriends (what I call my daughters), to show people that SAHDs are just normal people who hug their kids and kiss their spouses just like everyone else.  Thanks for the slap in the face Ms. Trunks , we could do without it.  Drive-thru. 

If you feel as strongly as I do about this, please leave a comment below so that Ms. Trunks can see the solidarity.

 

 

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Users' Comments (75) RSS feed comment
Posted by Mr Lady, on Thursday May 1, 2008 , , Guest
Grrr. I wrote a novella and then hit reset. The gist was, "Whatever, Hosehead." Also, "Piss off, idiot."
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by BusyDad, on Thursday May 1, 2008 , , Guest
That HAD to have been a joke. If not, it was extremely sad. And ironic. Does she not realize that he wrote her all those emails because he was, um, HITTING ON HER?
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Darren, on Thursday May 1, 2008 , , Guest
I actually like Penelope Trunk's column...most of the time...when she isn't taking on stay-at-home dads. I'm 100% with you on this one. I was going to leave a comment on her blog yesterday, but got so fed up with it and short on time that I didn't bother. 
 
No stay-at-home dad is perfect. Hell, we may even make ourselves look better in our blogs than we actually are. But we're NOT like the anonymous asshole in the column. To him: If you want to speak for us, dickhead, use your name. To Trunk: A journalist should have far higher standards than that column. I hope there will be an apologetic follow up.
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Nina, on Thursday May 1, 2008 , , Guest
:( What a horrible man!! And an insult to all the Stay-At-Home-Dads out there. I think she posted that for the shock effect, for attention. I also wonder if he was able to read her "editing" before she posted it. I wouldn't let it bother you too much, she isn't worth the energy. :)
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Yana, on Thursday May 1, 2008 , , Guest
Wow. I was seriously just sitting there slack-jawwed as I read that article. I couldn't believe that guy was serious. Soooo disrespectful to stay at home dads! Why do people make such a big stink out of this? Men are just as capable of staying home and caring for children as women are. They can be just as loving and nurturing. My husband may soon be staying home with our daughter and I wouldn't respect him any less for it.  
 
I found Ms. Trunk's article bordering on disgusting.
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Stacey@Real World Mom, on Thursday May 1, 2008 , , Guest
Ok, this article MUST be a joke, right? It appears to me to have more to do with some jerk, who just so happens to (supposedly be) a SAHD than Stay-at-Home Dads. Allow me to correct myself: It's a very UN-funny joke!
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Trish, on Thursday May 1, 2008 , , Guest
Wow - this woman has really, really low standards if this is the best she can come up with for her "first" guest post and from "anonymous" yet. Oh, yeah...this is where I want to get my 'best information' from. 
This is not only offensive to all the stay-at-home-Dads, it's offensive to anyone who has half a brain. Given her philosophy, I wouldn't read her opinion any more on anything, as seems she's into mindless drivel.
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Kelby, on Thursday May 1, 2008 , , Guest
Screw that idiot! She is so full of crap! Why is a SAHD any different than a SAHM or a working dad? My husband did the SAHD scene for years while I was a fulltime working mom... it is no easy job. On top of that, you get all these morons (especially older generations) who think men only SAH if they HAVE to or something is wrong. Pfft. That offends me as a woman, and would offend me as a man, too. Why is it OK for women to do it, then? 
 
Now we're both SAHPs... and I can assure you, it is no easy ride for either dad or mom.
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Russ, on Thursday May 1, 2008 , , Registered
Unfortunately I know too many women who share her point of view. They need to be reminded that not all of us share the amoral attitude of a former President. 
 
Anyway to quote Blazing Saddles, "Harumph!"
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Viv, Editor, Cool Moms Rule!, on Thursday May 1, 2008 , , Guest
I left an angry comment over at the Trunk's site, but I wanted to comment here because I would SO much rather you have the traffic coming to your site than hers!  
 
As a stay-at-home Mom, I am offended that this guy--admitted chauvinist and sneaky snake--is the example she picked of a SAHM she "respects." As you said, the "Dad" part is barely even touched upon, and nowhere do we really get a look inside the life of someone who spends all day, every day, with his kids. I know the very real work that goes into days like that, and SAHD's need a pat on the back, a huge thank you, and all the positive recognition we can give them for not only bucking the typical gender role stereotype, but for supporting their wives in the workplace. And that's in addition to all the fantastic nurturing and serving as a positive role model! 
 
Kudos to you, and that woman needs to spend a week with a REAL SAHD!
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by stewarallyn, on Thursday May 1, 2008 , , Guest
Your response was well done. She did not not post an article from a SAHD, she posted an article about a so-called baby-sitter with a sugar momma. I guess she figures only sex can can sell, or garner interest in her writing.
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Grimm, on Thursday May 1, 2008 , , Registered
Man, while I haven't met up with this particular type of person, I have met up with a few that think SAHD have it made because they don't work for a living and depend on the wife to bring home the bacon. I believe you have touched on THAT topic before. 
 
While I am not a SAHD, I do take pride in being involved in the lives of my little girls. Some people need to wake up.
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Lindsay Lebresco (Graco), on Thursday May 1, 2008 , , Guest
Wow! That was quite a read! Your retort is well done and appreciated. My husband is a SAHD and he is fantastic! I probably respect him now more than ever. The site redesign looks great, btw.
 
» Reply to this comment...

10/10
Posted by Natural Woman, on Thursday May 1, 2008 , , Registered
Hey Joeprah. I think you're a great Dad period, whether you stay home or live on the moon. I think the things you do with your girls and the love you show for your wife is exemplimary. never mind what other people think...you are doing what's best for you and your family and that's what GREAT dads do!
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Jeremy (Discovering Dad), on Thursday May 1, 2008 , , Guest
Dude, I left 2 comments on that post yesterday too. I didn't get it, don't get it, won't get it, even with the clarification edited into to it by Penelope. How could that post have even come close to representing SAHDs in a fair way? Glad to see you posted this response article! Thanks man!
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Terri Clark, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Guest
Allow me to comment on what a female dog this lady is! I'll stop before I pigeonhole her in that category like she did the SAHDs. I am a SAHM myself. Yeah, I have affairs with strange men all the time, that is, like a SAHD, in the 2 spare minutes I have every day between my 4 year old calling me, the dishes, my work at home business, etc. NOT!!
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by MileHiDad, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Registered
Yo Joe, I am back from my daily morning workout, freshly showered but not freshly shaved, wait, sorry wrong post, the days meld together when it snows outside just as it is now. Anyway…  
What is this chick’s problem? Was she snubbed at the park by one of us? Is her PMS stuck in overdrive with a serious “dad hate” attitude? Are her panties in a wad? The corporate world, man or woman, is not ready for this kind of attitude; and she is giving advice? 
I am not entirely sure what she set out to prove with this post other than to reduce her readership and pollute/waste bandwidth, but rock on babe, YOU ROCK? :?  
MileHiDad 8) will never visit her Blog again.
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Ali, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Guest
I have to wonder why she didn't simply title her article, "What life is like for THIS stay at home dad," instead of lumping all sahd's in the group as that creep. 
 
Great retort! Bonus points for working in Pulp Fiction. :)
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Dorky Dad, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Guest
I'm not a SAHD, but I've strongly considered the lifestyle. Still, I don't know if it's worth it to get bent out of shape over this post. It's poorly done. That's it.  
 
A better writer would have found a better subject. It really sounds like this guy has marriage troubles, but in my view those troubles probably would have happened whether this guy was a SAHD or not because it doesn't seem like they communicate. But I'm just guessing because the article doesn't include some key information. 
 
I will say that I like the idea of trying to talk some about the down side of being a stay-at-home dad. There certainly is a down side, just like there's a down side to everything else. Yet this article didn't even deal with it. She just compiled a post based on a handful of e-mails to come across with the point that this guy has a serious disconnect with his wife. Well, that happens in every marriage, and is not really unique to the lifestyle.
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Christine @ Serenity How?, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Guest
It's funny (and not in the ha ha sort of way) that I happened to read that article yesterday. I've never read her before and will probably never again. That's how turned off I was. 
 
Then I look here and see you've posted about it. Yea Joe! I enjoyed reading your take on it, which was about the same as mine minus the Pulp Fiction reference. 
 
What a stupid jerk that guy is. I kept wondering why Ms. Trunk featured his pathetic story (making her a bit pathetic by association.) He sounded completely nonchalant about the fact that he's a cheating loser. Yeah, that's the kind of guy we want staying home with the kiddies. 
 
It made me sad, and it made me sick. A few people commented that it must be a joke, but that thought still makes me sick. 
 
I'm glad you took the time to write about this. On the bright side (if there is one) you may end up with your very own Internet Arch Nemesis. I hear they're great for driving up your site's traffic LOL!
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by LiteralDan, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Guest
I've never heard of this lady before, but after reading the post in question and an earlier one on SAHDs, it's obvious she is projecting her own issues and experiences onto the rest of the world. 
 
I mostly feel a little sad for her, and can't really justify caring beyond that. There are a lot of foolish people out there, and some of them have blogs.
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Frances, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Guest
That article was absolutely ridiculous. I find it amazing that this was one is really truly supposed to represent all SAHDs. Wonder what the take is on SAHMs? 
 
Makes me sick. 
 
Great response to it - and LOVE the Pulp Fiction reference!
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Birdie, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Registered
Aww...I'm really sorry. Seems to me that one (namely this Penelope person) should keep to their area of expertise before throwing a bunch of crap out there on a subject they have no clue about, but that's just me. Her thoughts aren't worth another thought really!
 
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Posted by Corey~ Living and Loving, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Registered
I am unwilling to even go read her article, as she does not deserve the traffic brought on my her attempt at shock value. Lumping any one group together based on ONE person is insane. You simply can not lump people together like that. I am a WOHM, and I can not be compared to other WOHM mom's. WE are individuals, and live completely different lives based on...ummmm....well....EVERYTHI NG. I will not be pigeon holed....and either should you.
 
» Reply to this comment...

10/10
Posted by peteej, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Registered
First of all, I love the Pulp Fiction analogy. Classic. :)  
 
Second, I'm right there with you on this. The only thing that prevents me from being a SAHD is a full-time job. I pretty much do everything so my wife can achieve a dream of getting a 4-year degree. That is a full-time job for her (because she actually studies).  
 
Penelope hasn't got a clue and I think I can safely say that she managed to piss off SAHDs and working dads all with one crappy, low-budget porn script of a post. Well done, Penelope.  
 
On a side note, I had no idea you were on the city council. Cool.
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Momo Fali, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Registered
I left a comment there and I'll leave a comment here. That was the saddest, most unfounded generalization of SAHDs I've ever heard. That post was a joke.
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by sogeshirts, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Guest
Let me get this straight. She takes one honest douchebag who admits to cheating on his wife and labels the rest of stay at home dads as exactly the same. There are enough straw men in that argument to have a whole field full of scarecrows. Terrible writing and analysis. Way to strike back Joeprah.
 
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10/10
Posted by Mama Bear, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Registered
First, I am seriously ashamed to have the same first name as this lunatic lady who wishes to besmear the reputation of sAHDs everywhere with the outlandish article she wrote.  
I know none of the SAHD that I know have cheated or considered it. She needs to check facts, or stick to topics that she knows.  
For shame on her for trying to tarnish something as precious as a bond between children and their father. I applaud all - men & women - who take the nontraditional paths in life.  
Being a homsechooling family trust us we get our fair share of ridiculous presumptions thrown at us.  
Stay strong, stay true to you, and ignore a bimbo such as this!
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by A Man Among Mommies, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Guest
Well... I guess everyone has an opinion. Every time I read articles written by people not SAHD's about SAHD's I feel insulted.  
 
(BTW I added your logo to my Blog) 
 
Todd 
 
AKA "A Man Among Mommies"
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Laura21230, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Registered
May I ask why after perusing "tons" of letters from SAHDs Ms. Trunk would choose this escapee from a Dear Abby column to post, albeit as an edit of several communications from a single individual? Perhaps it was that there was little in the other missives to appeal to the more puerile of her readers. Perhaps it was an attempt to shock. Or perhaps she was seeking the very controversy that has followed. 
 
Whatever the reason, it was a cheap shot at a group of men who most certainly deserve more respect. Might I be so bold as to question Ms. Trunk's own expertise in the area of child rearing? I find nothing in her apparently self-written biography on the http://www.linkedin.com/ website to indicate any expertise in the field of family dynamics. 
 
Ms. Trunk has obviously offered an opinion and only an opinion. We are all entitled to our opinions. One would hope however, that a "journalist" would at the very least attempt to offer an informed one.
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by zoesdad, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Registered
There's almost no place for me to begin. The article has absolutely nothing to do with the life of a Stay at Home Dad or any Dad for that matter. It's a sounding board for a moral degenerate that clearly lacks any respect for his wife or his family. She just gave the guy air--he needs to be speaking with the wife and the family he has so callusly (sp?) betrayed.
 
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Posted by sjhenry, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Registered
Its obvious she's projecting, based on her own baggage related to her marriage and SAH husband. On the face of it, the post is simply garbage.
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Quirkee James, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Guest
Nice retort! Jules would have been proud. Nobody got shot and you didn't have to call in "The Cleaner" to mop up your mess!
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by jt12blk, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Registered
The guy who wrote those emails probably isn't a SAHD anyway, for all we know. More likely you can find his stories in the Penthouse Forum section, where he about exploits that never actually happened. I doubt he's a dad at all, if he even exists.
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by kathy, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Guest
I think it has been established that anyone who stays home with the babies has their work cut out for her. Didn't Dr. Phil say staying home with the kids is the quivalent to two full time jobs?? I have a ton of respect for SAHD's and I think it's really healthy for kids to get that opportunity to be close with their Dads. The Dads I meet are totally hands on and extremely loving. Maybe we should ask the kids what they thing... 
 
Perhaps Penelope is on the rag...or hasn't been laid...or is upset because she has spent years trying to deal with the fact that her parents named her PENELOPE. ;)
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Melisa, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Registered
ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME???? 
 
I was at the salon (not as a client...as an employee) today and only got to sneak a peek at the Anthill real quick, so was chomping at the bit to get home and see what all the hullabaloo was about (Do people still use the word "Hullabaloo"?). 
 
I am so completely offended on your behalf by this; something like this is so damaging. Making generalizations and saying that this is what a "Typical Fill-in-the-blank" does or is, well, it doesn't do anybody any good, and it gives the haters more ammo. 
 
Though she obviously can post what she wants because it's her blog, people who are offended don't have to read it...It would be interesting to see what happens with her traffic after a few days. 
 
ARGH! 
 
On the bright side Joe, you are doing amazing things within your own family and all of us can see that: I would automatically think of you and some of the other great bloggie dads I've met if someone ever said something about a SAHD to me, so I guess that's a good thing! We're all behind the good SAHDs...
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Lin, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Guest
Hi Joe. I've read Penelope's post twice already, and am still amazed that she would actually allow such a post on her blog. After reading it, and feeling completely disgusted by it, I couldn't help but wonder if the "anonymous" SAHD happens to be someone we might already know of as a blogger perhaps, but the piece of dirt felt it necessary to be anonymous to save his hide.  
 
I'm not a SAHM and my husband is not a SAHD, but I have immense respect for those that can and do stay at home, work from work etc. Penelope's post was a real slap in the face to all SAHD's in my opinion.
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Maternal Mirth, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Guest
Ok, 1st - never heard of her. She's not *that* important. Obviously. 
 
2nd - any woman who thinks it's "honorable" that a man be honest about cheating is sick and wrong on so many levels. The phrase "honest about cheating" alone is cause for a WTF? 
 
3rd - I bet you she is 50 and having an affair with a SAHD. 
 
signed - Maternal Mirth 
www.maternalmirth.blogspot.com
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Susan Murphy, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Guest
I hate women who publish "all men are jerks" stuff. Some men are total jerks. Most men are not.  
 
I don't know you, Joe, but from what I read you are not one of the jerky ones. You are doing what is best for your family and you sound like you are a great Dad. And a great husband.  
 
I have subscribed to your blog now, I have NOT subscribed to hers.
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Ian, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Guest
Time to "go to the mattresses".
 
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Posted by CindyS, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Guest
Great rebuttal post. I visited Ms. Trunk's blog from the link on yours. I won't bother going back. From your post, I expected to at least find a professionally written article with a different point of view but all I found was narcissistic drivel both from Ms Trunk and her pathetic example. She shows both a lack of judgment and a lack of taste. And then she tries to justify it by adding an addendum. If it weren't insulting to every stay at home dad, it would just be laughable.
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Mudder, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Guest
Clearly this is a case of "my s*&t having no smell on it". I wonder where she gets off praising a dick like him? Her self-importance reminds me of a little turd in a big bowl. I'd love to have her come live in "my" world for just one day. She'd be picking pieces of the parking lot in front of my office off her buttcheeks for a week. 
Good on ya, Joe!
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by jason, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Guest
I'm not a SAHD, but if I was one I definitely would take offense to that article. It can't be real. If it is, I'd hate to be one of the kids he looks after on a daily basis. It's probably hookers and blow at his house. I read the blogs of many SAHDs, and what she is trying to get across as part of her "agenda" couldn't be further from the truth. Pathetic really.
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by TheOldBroad, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Guest
While I work some pretty grueling hours and don't have children, let me say this about stay-at-home parents: I don't want your job! It's just too darned hard. 
 
The hours are long (usually 24/7); the pay is non-existent; the responsibility is overwhelming; some with outside-the-home jobs think they are superior and say stupid things; and the "Thank You"s are limited. A stay-at-home parent must be a multi-tasker and organizer as well as scheduler, negotiator and peace maker. 
 
If anyone doesn't believe that, just let 'em try it for a couple of weeks. 
 
These people have my unabashed admiration.
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by cardiogirl, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Guest
First, and foremost, LOVED the title and the initial explanatory paragraph. I imagine you saying, "Say Stay At Home Dad again. I dare you!" 
 
As usual, the wild cards get the press and the upstanding men who are actually bonding with and taking care of their children are barely noticed if at all mentioned. It's salacious. This guy has children, he takes care of them but he really only emphasizes that he had an affair. 
 
And then feels a minor amount of regret (it seems). That's not how it's working on my block.  
 
And I'm hopeful that it's not really working that way on most blocks out there, whether it's Mom or Dad who's staying home. 
 
Way to show how it's really working, Joe, without hiding behind an "anonymous" label. Who knows if this SAHD even exists, except for a blog post on this chick "Brad's" site (see, I can't even remember her name). 
 
But I do remember Brad and his Kahuna burger.
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Tara R., on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Guest
I've never heard of this PT person either, but just from the short, limit exposure I've had with blogging SAHDs, she was hopelessly taken in by an obvious poser. This guy is a Dad? Did she edit all mention of his CHILDREN out of his email? If he was an anonymous source why would she take anything he wrote at face value or did she just want someone to validate her own skewed vision of what a SAHD was. The guy, if legit, sounds like a loser - husband, dad, man and human being.
 
» Reply to this comment...

Posted by Bad Momma, on Friday May 2, 2008 , , Guest
O.K., I